Continuing the conversation this week Robert and Dave focus on one of the many issues that are dividing our country today, gun safety. They look at the most sincere elements from each political party to take the best potential inspiration from both approaches to serve The United States. The extreme ends of the left and right are pretty well excluded from this discourse as they only seem to polarize. It is emphasized that President Trump and all those that helped him in the various conspiracies and violations to democracy are excluded. Robert holds a strong view that he and his accomplices need to be tried on multiple accounts and if what appears evident, they need to be put in jail. Instead, the show strives to strike a balance between individual freedom and collective responsibility to support our evolving democracy.Â
Thinking outside the box, Robert will be exploring an alternative narrative and a clarification of what the Second Amendment is trying to provoke. According to Justice Burger, the Second Amendment is about protecting states for the public good and the innocent. Between the years 1999 and 2020, more kids between 1 and 19 died of gun deaths than any other cause. Robert proposes that based on the assumption of the goodwill of gun owners a vast protection network should be created to be called upon in times of crisis. We cannot do what other countries have done. We cannot just buy the guns back. Instead, we can channel the goodwill of existing gun owners and harness it for protecting the whole state as envisioned by our founders.
These podcasts are attempting to foster a well-regulated militia for the benefit of the people. Robert and Dave work within the framework of the state that the U.S. is in right now. It could be one of the keys that help heal the division between Republicans and Democrats. However, it is really up to you and me as citizens to start to loosen up our rigid black and white thinking to empower our leaders to take bold action. We need to transform our addiction to being against, to be for. Imagine with us, regulated, dedicated gun-owning volunteers overwhelmingly good-natured, heroic, like our soldiers, and willing to risk their lives for the benefit of the innocent in our country.
Mentioned in this episode
The Global Bridge Foundation
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Transcript
Announcer: (00:00)
The Missing Conversation, Episode 59.
Robert Strock: (00:03)
Today, we’re gonna be exploring gun safety and see it as the polarizing issues that it is in our country and how tragic it is and how it leads to the loss of life for so many innocent people. We’re also gonna be exploring an alternative, a very clear alternative and a clarity of what the second amendment really is trying to provoke, which isn’t what the Democrats are saying or the Republicans are saying. It’s requiring us you to think outside the box.
Announcer: (00:40)
On this podcast, we will propose critical new strategies to address world issues, including homelessness, immigration, amongst several others, and making a connection to how our individual psychology contributes and can help transform the dangers that we face. We will break from traditional thinking, as we look at our challenges from a freer and more independent point of view. Your host, Robert Strock, has had 45 years of experience as a psychotherapist, author, and humanitarian and has developed a unique approach to communication, contemplation and inquiry. Born from working on his own challenges.
Robert Strock: (01:18)
A very spirited welcome again to The Missing Conversation where we are really addressing the most pressing issues that the world’s facing today. And I do mean today and where we look for the most practical, inspiring programs, innovative ideas, and people that give us the best chance to live a fulfilling life and to survive today. We’re gonna continue to talk about one of the many issues that are dividing our country, which is gun safety. I hope you’ve heard the first episode already. We’re attempting to do our best to look at the most sincere element of each political party and, and look to take the best potential inspiration from both approaches to serve America. The extreme ends of the left and the right are pretty well being excluded from this conversation as they just seem to polarize us. What it appears to us that will make democracy flower and be more secure is finding the balance between individual freedom and collective responsibility in this situation like many others. Both parties are looking at extreme ends of the political differences in our ignoring the tangible and potential reachable sane and safe grounds from which we can support an evolving democracy, which our country so badly needs. I’d like to start off by introducing Dave, my partner at the Global Bridge Foundation and dears friend for over 50 years.
Dave: (03:11)
Robert, thank you. I think it’s, uh, at this point in time with everything that has happened in these recent months and, and of course, many more months and years, I think it’s a courageous set of podcasts to address issues that are really fraught with strong, strong, and, uh, extreme, as you said, feelings on both ends, uh, that I wonder how many people as we talk are convincible to make a move.
Robert Strock: (03:42)
So do I, uh, I believe honestly that the lives of so many people matter, and this is just one issue where we’re thought to think black and white, I’m a Democrat or I’m a Republican, it’s not, I’m an American first, not really anymore. So what we’re penetrating to, In this one issue, one crucial issue today is gun safety. From the point of view of thinking outside the box. And as you’re saying, please join me in thinking outside the box or I’m boxed, I’m boxed in. Help, help me in expanding that box of being riveted to one side of the issue today, we’re gonna be exploring gun safety and see it as the polarizing issues that it is in our country and how tragic it is and how it leads to the loss of life for so many innocent people. We’re also gonna be exploring an alternative, a very clear alternative and a clarity of what The Second Amendment really is trying to provoke, which isn’t what the Democrats are saying or the Republicans are saying it’s requiring us you to think outside the box.
Dave: (05:09)
I, I wanna reflect back on Justice Burger and his statement and your echoing of that to be really that The Second Amendment was about protecting states, uh, militias that were there to be there for the public good to protect innocence at a time when that amendment was created and reflect on the fact that the United States per capita has more guns than anywhere in the world. Between the years 1999 and 2020 more kids between 1 and 19 died of gun deaths than any other cause, any other cause. And so the question I have, and I think what needs to be addressed to, to have a move is what, what uses are justified, how does, uh, a militia coordinate with the thousands of police forces and, uh, you know, law enforcement agencies in our country? How does a person who now has what they consider to be freedoms, not look at the suggestions made in the last episode for how you get the ability to have a weapon? How is that not experienced as a radical taking away of rights?
Robert Strock: (06:40)
So, first of all Justice Burger, the conservative justice, so important for Republicans to hear, made it very, very clear that the intent was for public safety. That they were an arm of supporting the innocence in their whole area. It was incredibly visionary. And also, as I’ll really elaborate on later, it was assuming the goodwill of gun owners that they were dominantly protective. And that’s where the Democrats have really, frankly, the Democrats and the Republicans have really missed the boat that it’s for vast protection. It’s another arm of brilliance that wasn’t seen and followed that we can, if we think outside the box. And we can see that when there’s that kind of explosiveness, there’s always gonna be danger. And the only way we counteract that danger is to have a larger force that’s for good and signed up for good and prescreened carefully for good. And it’s because of exactly what you said, the fact that we already have 300 million guns and that we’ve killed so many kids that we can’t do what other countries have done, we can’t just buy them back that’s not gonna happen during our lifetime. So we need to channel the goodwill that’s sitting there in the Republican Party or I’m hallucinating.
Robert Strock: (08:34)
I truly believe that the goodwill is there, but it has not been focused on and harnessed and its the responsibility of you the listener, and me the speaker, and all of us to propose the use of this weaponry for protection and severe consequences. If it’s ever misused, just like always, and severe criteria for anyone who takes that heroic role and chances are you’ll never get beeped, as we talked about in the last episode. But if we have someone that’s within a mile and it’s beeped within a minute, the chances are very good they’re gonna be able to get to the situation within a couple of minutes and save thousands and thousands of lives.
Dave: (09:26)
To take again and hearken back to Justice Burger’s interpretation of The Second Amendment and the time in our history in the United States, when the word militia was so important, there were no police departments. There were no law enforcement agencies. There were no people who were trained. Uh, not that it’s perfect today, but there was nothing. But if you, if you were a, a person living in what was dominantly a rural area at the time, this Second Amendment existed, you could be at the mercy of many types of people that had bad intentions without the existence of those militias. That’s not our world today. We have roughly 900,000 sworn police officers close to 18,000 law enforcement agencies and police departments. Where’s the need?
Robert Strock: (10:33)
The, the need is for more coverage of location. I agree with you that the police departments need to have the weaponry to fight fire with fire. And that needs to be an immediate response, but a police department might be 10 minutes away. And one of these hundreds of thousands of individuals that are gun owners might be a minute away and they’re, they’re on the same team. That was the vision of our founders. Actually, as I now see it, it was brilliant, but too abbreviated, it wasn’t specified in detail enough to have a signup, to have conditions for a signup to make it clear that it’s for the protection of the whole state, not just for your family.
Speaker 4: (11:30)
I think by saying in The Second Amendment, well regulated, it opened the door to regulations.
Robert Strock: (11:36)
That’s right.
Dave: (11:37)
So in that sense, I think there was language there that could have done that.
Robert Strock: (11:43)
I agreed and clear that it wasn’t and isn’t, and that’s what these podcasts are attempting to foster, a well regulated militia for the benefit of the people that are trustworthy. And it requires me as a former Democrat and still leaning that way in policy, but recognizing there are too many issues I now disagree with, and I have to think outside the box that I’ve gotta get over my own prejudice. I, I think part of me thinks I’m crazy for saying this, but I realize the guns are here and what Justice Burger said was incredibly sane to, to see that it’s being misused. But what it doesn’t go to, which is what we’re going to is it can be used for benefit and the police are great for that purpose, if they’re well armed, but they’re just not enough. So we’re talking about assuming goodwill of a lot of Republicans that would sign up for this purpose and Democrats that have guns.
Robert Strock: (13:06)
So as you hear this, see if you’re open to consider it that the black and white thinking of which I’m guilty too, of being with one strictly is potentially and in reality is our contribution to separating from the principles that can unite us. That actually the given that we’re already having 300 million guns, we don’t have any other really good options, but to harness the goodwill of the gun holders and knowing that fair amount of gun holders, I do see that goodwill. I just don’t see, it’s been asked for that’s what this is advocating, asking for that goodwill to be harnessed and regulated carefully regulated militia. As you said, as, as The Second Amendment said, as Burger reiterated being a lifetime Democrat, I can no longer afford to just be one sided. We’ve got to join a middle position on this issue and many others.
Robert Strock: (14:25)
So see if you can join us in being part of uniting in this missing conversation and the potential response that could create a unity that hasn’t existed in our union as a country. See if you can see the importance of it and see that your own fears, my own fears have led me to stereotype gun owners. And again, I wanna reiterate, as I did in the last episode, the idea here is not for me to sound or to be, or to act grandiose and think that I have the answers in detail. I do think that the principle change of harnessing this goodwill with a number of protective measures is something that isn’t grandiose, it’s practical, it’s sensible, it’s dealing with a state that America’s in right now. And ironically, it is one of the keys that could help heal the division between the Republicans and the Democrats, where we can meld our minds together in this way.
Robert Strock: (15:45)
However, it’s really up to you and me as people that need to start to loosen up our rigid black and white thinking in order to empower our leaders to take bold action. How in the hell do we think they’re gonna take bold action if all of us or virtually all of us are standing as black and white thinkers. Of course they’re gonna be black and white thinkers so they can get elected. But what happens when the majority of us see we’re not gonna change the 300 million guns, we need to recruit the original intent and goodwill that was there from our founding fathers. We need to allow the guns because we don’t have the ability not to allow the guns. Do I still think we need to have protective measures for the guns? Yes, I do. Do I still believe in a lot of the democratic, Democratic Party principles of background checks and limits and some degree, some degree of screening and waiting times and aging, raising age.
Robert Strock: (16:57)
Yes, I do. But that’s, let’s say co-primary, I won’t wanna say secondary it’s co-primary and if I lose on that, I lose on that. But at least if we have a vast protective virtual army of individuals that have a stated goodwill, I believe those gun owners will feel good about this. And I believe those of us that are not gun owners will be able to feel safer, but it does require, as I’m saying over and over again, and will continue to thinking outside the box, getting over our, our initial gut level instincts. And the question is, are you ready to spread the word? Are you ready to contemplate it first? Really deeply think about it and say, yeah, the 300 million guns are stable part of America, more than any place in the world. It is set up to be a militia and it needs to be a well intentioned militia, which as far as I see right now, it is a well intentioned set of gun owners that have a narrow protection in mind. And they need to expand that protection to be in line with protecting the innocence of our country.
Dave: (18:26)
Roughly 83% of Americans live in urban areas that are well policed, urban areas are not places you go hunting, which of course is another use for a weapon. I, I assume some of the people that live in cities go and they hunt and they go to rural areas presumably to hunt. So the question is, and maybe this is something you will get to is I’m, I’m a gun owner I have in this system, an AR 15, I’ve gone through a psychological test, a background test, whatever the requirements may be. I’ve agreed to that. And who’s beeping me? If there’s a police department, the police are saying, are the police beeping me? Are they saying, we need help. Who’s doing that.
Robert Strock: (19:17)
The police police are. And I also would propose that the national guard has elements of AR 15s as well, that they have assigned different areas of the National Guard, which is kind of a natural, even more so than the general population, because they already have the training. Now they would need specialized training to be able to use AR 15s, but there can be a screening process that is easier to do. So we’re talking about yes to the police, yes to the National Guard and yes, to the people that wanna sign up to be protective, all working with respect and in concert and for protection. And yes, the, the police are beeping, maybe the National Guard will be an element of beepers, as well, if they get word of it first, maybe the, maybe the media will tie into a beeping system, all of that has to be coordinated.
Robert Strock: (20:19)
But the point being, if we have a million sources of protection in the country, or 500,000 or 300,000, in addition to the police departments, we have more signed up protectors. And I really truly believe I would even go so far as say no, that the majority of Republicans would want to, the more majority of Democrats also would want to, that have guns, be heroic enough to want to protect. I think the only thing that will stop them is fear. I believe that that the, that the protection is the main reason to have the guns, but it does require a lot of courage to put yourself in harm’s way, but it won’t be because of ill intent. They won’t do it, it’ll be because they don’t have enough courage. Now that’s a radical statement that’s not something that we, as Democrats have been thinking, it does require being outta the box.
Dave: (21:26)
So let’s just put a little bit of flesh on the bones of who gets screened out of having, and I’ll just keep it to the AR 15 for the moment. What’s the criteria. I mean, we’ve got, uh, if it, uh, just take the recent horrifying example of, uh, January 6th last year, are those people screened out and how, how, how, how does that work?
Robert Strock: (21:55)
Well, there’s going to have to be, and again, this is above my pay grade, so I’m just giving you my opinion, but I know, and I’m stating very clearly this will be for police departments, may, maybe even elements of the military people of great wisdom who are going to come up with one or more psychological tests. Now, anybody that’s part of white nationalism that is declared to be feeling superior is excluded, they’re out, they are dangerous. There’s no doubt the, the, this is part of the clearinghouse and the screening that has to be done. Anyone that’s had violence in their background, any, anyone that’s had spousal abuse, anyone that has mental health, serious issues in their past has to be screened out. And the details of that, again, are beyond the realm of this podcast. But the essence of that screening is definitely a big part of this podcast.
Robert Strock: (23:10)
Now, one of my early teachers and guides taught me something that was really a part of what I’ve already mentioned and will continue to mention and he made the statement that, that the assumption of goodwill is like an act of magic that can create incredible benefit. That’s inconceivable to us before we express it. Now that’s true in love relationships. That’s true in friendships. That’s true in countries. It’s true in political parties. We need to reevaluate our assumptions of bad will. That makes us deranged. Now that doesn’t mean that if someone is a sworn killer or a sworn person that’s advocating, I am superior to you. I am a better race than you, that we shouldn’t have an assumption of bad will and a protection and boundaries and laws. We need to have those, but an assumption of bad will toward a political party where there are a lot of good people is a form of insanity.
Robert Strock: (24:40)
And I’d been one of the insane. This realization came as I was just starting to think about this podcast. And suddenly it became clear that this was an approach given the reality of how entrenched we already are and given the real intent of reading carefully, which I admit I didn’t do the simple one sentence and what the meaning was and what the intent was. I no longer am opposed to all people being kept from having weaponry. But as I said earlier, I am into a lot of screening. That is not the case now, but we’re dealing with another issue primarily.
Dave: (25:29)
To be clear, putting aside the all or nothing radical view, uh, in this case, if you want to generalize of Republicans. And yes, it has to be said because it’s factual that the elected people that make the rules have uniformly almost with no exception have uniformly, and that, by the way, those people are elected generally across the country. And there has been virtually zero, you could, they’re nibbling around the edges right now, just happened, but that’s the first time in decades. And that’s just, forget about even coming close to considering any of these possible restrictions or criteria or trainings or coordinations nibbling around the edges. How is it not realistic to look at that elected group of people as the extreme?
Robert Strock: (26:39)
It’s actually a, a very, uh, crucial question and I’m gonna be a little dramatic. I think the core in this issue of gun safety of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and the leadership of both parties are paranoid. And I wasn’t able to see the gray, the relativity, the goodwill of the part of gun holders. And so of course the leaders are going to wanna be reelected and they’re part of the collective paranoia. And we have to be able to find the wisdom and the courage and the common sense to realize that whole population isn’t evil. Everyone that wants a gun is not evil and matter of fact, the overwhelming percentage of people that want a gun are not evil. I mean like 99%.
Dave: (27:45)
Okay. Then let’s explain this, something like, I believe it’s in the nineties supported background checks, doesn’t happen. Even Republicans in the general population support that, overwhelmingly support that, the Republicans that are elected, no way, how do you have this conversation without relating to the fact that they’re getting political contributions that motivate them to do things that are not in the public, my view, interest, but at least not in the public view of what they want.
Robert Strock: (28:28)
I will grant you that the leaders of both parties are taking the black and the white to the extreme, they’re representing the fringe. They’re not thinking in gray areas. They’re not thinking, how do we create a force for good, neither side is. And so there is a reflection on the extreme end in leadership of paranoia. It’s like the paranoia is what has gotten conveyed to the leaders in the country. And the, the greater common sense of the American people has not been translated into the leadership. You’re correct. That is right. But what it’s gonna take is millions of people signing up agreeing that there needs to be this militia for good, militia for protection. And I have very little doubt that the leaders will change their tune, but I do hold the leaders accountable for having an addiction to power. And it’s another level of black and white thinking, an addiction to power that adds to them being even a little more insane, or maybe a lot more insane than the average American who does believe in all these measures you’re talking about.
Robert Strock: (30:03)
So I think it’s so important that we see that we as individuals, you as individuals, need to be part of this approach to see the goodwill of the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of gun owners. And to insist with your politicians, with your friends, that there be a recruitment and a careful contemplation on the part of political leaders to have this sign up. And yes, I also believe there needs to be an overwhelming rise of those Americans that aren’t in sync with their leaders. It’s like, there’s a, there’s like an addiction also to not only for the leaders to be elected, but for the voters to be secure. So I would say the leaders have an addiction to power and the followers have an addiction to be secure and safe. I feel safe that if Trump is our president, that he’s going to straighten out the country, that’s what makes them feel safe.
Speaker 2: (31:30)
It’s a delusion of safety. And what needs to be shown is the safety is when people are signing up for protection and not a blindness of wanting to be safe in a world and a country that is becoming less safe. So I asked you to continue to join us as we dive more deeply into how do we creatively and together, how do you support a premise of signing up masses and masses of people for recruitment, for protection, for safety aligned with the original intent of our founding fathers and all of us. We could say we’re all founding fathers and mothers, or if we’re not parents, we have kids that we wanna protect for the benefit of all of us. That we commit our actions toward safety and not stay in reaction, just being against the other party. There is something dynamically addictive about our country’s fascination with being against, with being angry, with being frustrated.
Robert Strock: (32:53)
And we need to transform that addiction to being against, to being for. And what we’re gonna be for is a completely dedicated militia police force, National Guard that is overwhelmingly good natured, heroic like our soldiers to be willing to risk their lives for the benefit of the innocent in our country. And hopefully it spreads to the world as well. Thank you for joining us. And I really ask you to continue to contemplate this. And if you’re not clear, just stay in the contemplation. And if you are clear, spread the word, you have some good conversations to have with your friends, whether they’re Democrats or Republicans. And it’s finally a ground where we can talk to our opposing parties. If we’re identified with one party, or as Dave mentioned earlier, if you’re a Libertarian, maybe you’re gonna have a field day with this where you’re gonna be able to somewhat unite with both parties. So thanks again for your attention. And I look forward to penetrate further with you in this.
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